Cristovam Buarque: Yes, China has a long history of this kind of conversation to find a way forwards. Perhaps we can go back to Confucius to find that. It is a tradition in China to talk, to discuss, to find the middle way. We need to learn from the Chinese.
Guancha: Going back to the three peaces you talked about, is the way to achieve that just through dialogue or does it also require acquire something else?
Cristovam Buarque:Other things, but especially speeches at the United Nations, conversation everywhere. Now, two of these three peaces, they come together. Social peace will bring migration peace. If you look to Syria, for example, the migration was because of the civil war, but usually in the world, migration is due to poverty, i.e. social reasons. This is the case of central America, for example. Then these two peaces, they come together: if we solve poverty, we solve migration.
For ecological peace, we need more than that. We need, in a certain way, a cultural revolution, a mind revolution, to abolish the way that gross national product is used as the indicator of civilization. No, civilization is a lot more than production. And one of the things we need a lot more of is the respect of nature, respect of ecology. It means we need sustainability. This peace is more difficult than the other two, and more urgent for humankind; social and migration peace is more urgent to poor people, to migrants, but ecology peace is more important than any other to humankind.
Guancha: While relations between China and Brazil have mostly been unaffected by Brazil's internal politics, China and other countries have been concerned by post-election violence after the closely fought 2022 Brazil general election. Given the continued poor state of Brazil's economy right now, should the international community be concerned about Brazil's stability?
Cristovam Buarque: We have to be concerned a bit everywhere in the world, and especially in Brazil we have concerns, democracy is very fragile everywhere, in Brazil perhaps more than in a lot of other countries, but there's no danger. Brazilian democracy is stable, at least for many years ahead.